http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe..._46/?hub=Canada

Reminds me, again, why I'll never be voting for these mofos.

Do you seriously want to see this crap anyway? Havn't we already heard almost everything? Or is it too difficut for your genius mind to picture it, that you neeeed visuals?? How much of this movie is going to be conjecture anyway where we don't know the little details? And isn't there enough other entertainment to satisfy the minds of people who have some need to know. I'm sure you'll be able to find it somewhere on the net anyway. So get a buddy to send you a copy from another province and quit gripping about your deep seated need to give more attention to the act and the perpetraters. And I don't give a crap that my spelling is way off to-day!!

Smoke one and chill in your fantasies!!


Should this be here or in Intensely Serious Debates

Originally posted by Autumn Do you seriously want to see this crap anyway? Havn't we already heard almost everything? Or is it too difficut for your genius mind to picture it, that you neeeed visuals?? How much of this movie is going to be conjecture anyway where we don't know the little details? And isn't there enough other entertainment to satisfy the minds of people who have some need to know. I'm sure you'll be able to find it somewhere on the net anyway. So get a buddy to send you a copy from another province and quit gripping about your deep seated need to give more attention to the act and the perpetraters. And I don't give a crap that my spelling is way off to-day!! Smoke one and chill in your fantasies!! Should this be here or in Intensely Serious Debates

Woah!

Seriosuly chill

I've never read any of the books published on it, never watched any of the news docu's on it (aside from general news coverage on The National etc) or even really paid attention to it aside from the creepy feeling that it happened.

What bothers me is the idelogy behind it. What's the next step? What other Hollywood movies will be banned next if this goes through?

I doubt I'll see the movie. I can't stand gore and don't watch movies about villians (never even seen an episode of The Sopranos etc) however will The Sopranos be the next show banned b/c of those who were victimized by the mafia?

It's very concerning where this will end. It's not a path I want to see us go down.

As for here or intense chat - honestly I don't know. I didn't really think it'd be so much a "intense" topic.

If it were not for that mofo......

The MPP, who represents the riding of Burlington, sponsored another bill meant to protect the French and Mahaffy families back in 1994. That bill became the Victims' Right to Proceeds of Crime Act and prohibits criminals from profiting from their crimes by retelling them.

No one should profit from that horrific crime!

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah If it were not for that mofo...... No one should profit from that horrific crime!

I understand what your saying however that could also be said about Schindler's List. Should stories of horrific crimes be forbidden to be made?

We know nothing about this film other than it's subject matter. It could be a serious film on how to avoid horrible events like this in the future.

Like I said, even if it's just a trash movie, censorship is a slippery slope that should always be taken with caution and in this case I'm concerned people are leading with emotion rather than from a pragmatic concern over how society should evolve.

For television addicts, it's a chilling thought. Imagine no more "Sopranos," "Deadwood," or "The Shield." No place on cable for the Peabody-winning "The Daily Show." No more sassy Cartman on "South Park." I don't mean doing away with these critically acclaimed, much-loved programs because they get canceled or because nobody's watching. I'm talking about doing away with them because the government steps in and says they are inappropriate for us to watch. It sounds absurd that in today's world, someone could dictate what we can and cannot watch on television -- not on free TV, where regulation is understandable, but on cable where we pay for the privilege of hearing a feisty Al Swerengen use colorful Western vocabulary on "Deadwood." But censorship of this type could become reality if some members of Congress and media watchdog groups such as the Parents Television Council (PTC) have their way. They want to regulate cable television the same way free over-the-air television is controlled. For more than a year, the PTC has been yammering about indecency on cable and satellite television, and Congress has been listening. Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, and Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, appeared at the recent National Association of Broadcasters annual conference and said they think government regulators should move in on cable and satellite

From The Salt Lake City Tribune
http://www.sltrib.com/tv/ci_2720550

There is something very dangerous going on when they want to censor pay tv programs like The Sopranos.

There is something very dangerous going on with freedom of speech in North America.

Originally posted by NakedGord I understand what your saying however that could also be said about Schindler's List. Should stories of horrific crimes be forbidden to be made?

That's right! After we get done banning the Bernardo movie and Schindler's List, let's get the banning bandwagon rolling and forbid all true crime stories in all media. Law & Order bases many of it's stories on true crimes so it'll have to go. Shakespeare's historical dramas - banished! All the classic war and anti-war movies - not for Canadian eyes! Passion of the Christ - a guy's freakin' tortured and crucified - ban it! All those Ann Rule books on true crime stories - way too popular anyway - ban 'em! Newspaper and television reporting on crime should certainly be the first to go - vultures!

Now is the time to ban free speech altog********

{Please note: this posting has been banned under the new anti-free-speech amendment of the Canadian constitution - please be aware that further comment could result in anonymous imprisonment - keep your mouth shut if you know what's good for you. Thank-you.}

Originally posted by NakedGord I understand what your saying however that could also be said about Schindler's List. Should stories of horrific crimes be forbidden to be made?

Well gord, I believe your intial posted was motivated for political reasons, not for addressing free speech. IMO, your language is totally disrespectful for someone who lives in a country that professes tolerance and is very accepting to many different beliefs and views. I also find it interesting that you would support the big bad moviemaker profiting off of someone's misfortune.

We know nothing about this film other than it's subject matter. It could be a serious film on how to avoid horrible events like this in the future. Like I said, even if it's just a trash movie, censorship is a slippery slope that should always be taken with caution and in this case I'm concerned people are leading with emotion rather than from a pragmatic concern over how society should evolve.

I agree with you on censorship, it is tricky and we have to be careful with it. My understanding is that this bill will allow victims to have recourse through the court system which I don't see as a bad thing. Is it?

Originally posted by bookhead Please note: this posting has been banned under the new anti-free-speech amendment of the Canadian constitution - please be aware that further comment could result in anonymous imprisonment - keep your mouth shut if you know what's good for you. Thank-you.

Oh my, someone's a little angry and likes yelling since common cents hasn't been around.

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah Oh my, someone's a little angry and likes yelling since common cents hasn't been around.

I did say "thank-you"...





(Plus, if you want to see someone truly angry and yelling (not to mention needlessly and irrelevantly insulting) - check out Autumn's post above...)

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah Well gord, I believe your intial posted was motivated for political reasons, not for addressing free speech. IMO, your language is totally disrespectful for someone who lives in a country that professes tolerance and is very accepting to many different beliefs and views. I also find it interesting that you would support the big bad moviemaker profiting off of someone's misfortune. I agree with you on censorship, it is tricky and we have to be careful with it. My understanding is that this bill will allow victims to have recourse through the court system which I don't see as a bad thing. Is it? Oh my, someone's a little angry and likes yelling since common cents hasn't been around.

Oh yes. It was for sure. I don't know what but it always seems to be conservatives who threaten freedom of speech.

Most recently it's been the FCC's (chaired by Republican Michael Powell till recently) crackdown
on the Janet Jackson breastfest, Howard Stern (whose been doing his thing without problems for decades till now and oddly enough who didn't have problems with the FCC until he came out against the Iraq war) and ABC affilates refusing to air Saving Private Ryan because of concerns over the FCC crackdowns.

There was that case of the reporter in the Whitehouse press core who turned out to be working for the Republicans.

Then there's the article above with the two Republican Senators wanting to censor *pay* television.

It's all part and parcel - however if McGuinty allows this bunk from Cam to become law I'll hammer McGuinty as well. Same goes for the NDP's Hampton.

As for the bill - yes - that's exactly how it's proposed to work. But it has nothing to do with slander, misrepresentation - just "hurt feelings" and moral distress. If it's factually based and does not slader the family members then it'd have no real merit - and is just designed to send a chill to the creative community. I'm all for victims rights and am actually alot harder on crime in my views than alot of others who I usually agree with on everything. However this is way over the edge and is something just designed to curb legit speech.

Bookhead's reference to Law and Order is apt to the extreme. What's next?

As for supporting a big, bad movie company....ummmm I've always supported the movie comapnies. I love renting and buying them. Dispite many of my friends always downloading and burning I buy movies on a regular basis. Just bought 5 yesterday.
Besides, unless it was made by Fox, everybody in Hollywood are left wingers so I'm actually helping the cause.

If they're not slandering someone who is not a public figure like Jacko or a politician then it's fair game. As it's always been - just like Bookhead's Shakesphere reference.

As for bookhead I kinda enjoyed the satire, and took it as such.

However you do bring up a very cogent point:

Where is Common Cents?

I was just wondering that myself.

Originally posted by bookhead (Plus, if you want to see someone truly angry and yelling (not to mention needlessly and irrelevantly insulting) - check out Autumn's post above...)

True but finally someone here recognized my "genius mind"

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah If it were not for that mofo...... No one should profit from that horrific crime!

Have you ever read Go-Boy by Roger Caron? He was a Canadian who was in prison numerous times for various violent and non-violent crimes and wrote this inspiring book on his life and experiences. It won the Governor-General's Award. It is hardly a book that would inspire anyone to start a life of crime, and yet it profited Roger Caron financially and it profitted him by changing his life in a positive way - he went on to write more books and more importantly, he finally broke the cycle of crime and prison he was on. In that regard, all Canadians profited.

When a prisoner has served their time, they deserve to have their full rights as a citizen restored. If we continue to punish them (as we almost always do now), we increase their chances of reoffending rather than rehabilitating. If we really want a system of perpetual punishment for criminals - let's be upfront about it and change our justice system to reflect this vengeance ethics. Unfortunately, that would not be a Canada that I would wish to be a part of any longer.

Both victims rights and anti-free-speech legislation are very dangerous paths towards mob rule and fascism. The purpose of having a justice system is that justice is blind - it is an objective assessment of a crime and an equally objective assessment of a suitable punismhment for that crime. As the Bernardo case shows, this is hardly a perfect system - but it is a dream compared to mob rule and emotionally ruled decisions. Victims calling the shots and even profitting from crimes is a perversion of justice and the first step towards mob rule. Canadians shouldn't be silenced about yelling about these infringements on our basic human rights, our freedoms, and our democratic system.

Originally posted by NakedGord Oh yes. It was for sure. I don't know what but it always seems to be conservatives who threaten freedom of speech.

Really? Please enlighten. I believe you're posting this for your own political reasons, you hate the conservatives plain and simple and you're using this forum to further your cause and spread your word against the conservatives.

As for the bill - yes - that's exactly how it's proposed to work. But it has nothing to do with slander, misrepresentation - just "hurt feelings" and moral distress.

Which in my view is sufficient grounds for legal action. Why should the victims families be made to suffer through reliving the horror because of some big corporate american movie maker wanting to make a buck. Thats it, its only about money. I'd like to see the creative minds pass the money over to the victim's families. After all, without the victim's, there'd be no ugly story to tell.

People are passionate about this topic and rightfully so because of the horrific nature of the crime. It always seems to me that wishes of the victims and their families are overlooked for the almighty buck and in this case someone's creativity. I'd like to see more victims rights in place as recourse for their pain and suffering. This bill would give them an avenue.

Does nobody here seriously see a difference between the decimation of 2, 3 or 4 girls depending on the way you look at it, by two adults? Affecting directly 6 families as apposed to How many thousands or millions of people and families decimated (Shindlers List)? The latter carries generation upon generation of millions of families that WISH to share in the greaving with one another and the world. They WANT people to know. While The families of the young ladies in question do NOT want to share with the world. Think about the difference in the circumstances and the sheer numbers or lack of, that are involved. Who is making profit from Shindlers List? The bad guys? Where has the money gone from such revenues? Hasn't it gone to something like education or the families or something? I may be wrong on that. What is the point in dragging 6 families through even more hell over some movie. They don't have 6 million other families to share in the grief with. There arn't 6 million other families these 2 people did this to. Can you imagine??


How can victims profiting from crimes be a perversion of justice But Roger Caron who was in prison multiple times for violent and non-violent crimes profitted financially by writing about his experiences be o.k
How can it be o.k for the criminals to profit but not the victims
as read in bookheads post 2nd one above

Originally posted by Autumn Do you seriously want to see this crap anyway? Havn't we already heard almost everything? Or is it too difficut for your genius mind to picture it, that you neeeed visuals?? How much of this movie is going to be conjecture anyway where we don't know the little details? And isn't there enough other entertainment to satisfy the minds of people who have some need to know. I'm sure you'll be able to find it somewhere on the net anyway. So get a buddy to send you a copy from another province and quit gripping about your deep seated need to give more attention to the act and the perpetraters. And I don't give a crap that my spelling is way off to-day!! Smoke one and chill in your fantasies!! Should this be here or in Intensely Serious Debates

Originally posted by Hayseed Hannah Really? Please enlighten. I believe you're posting this for your own political reasons, you hate the conservatives plain and simple and you're using this forum to further your cause and spread your word against the conservatives. Which in my view is sufficient grounds for legal action. Why should the victims families be made to suffer through reliving the horror because of some big corporate american movie maker wanting to make a buck. Thats it, its only about money. I'd like to see the creative minds pass the money over to the victim's families. After all, without the victim's, there'd be no ugly story to tell. People are passionate about this topic and rightfully so because of the horrific nature of the crime. It always seems to me that wishes of the victims and their families are overlooked for the almighty buck and in this case someone's creativity. I'd like to see more victims rights in place as recourse for their pain and suffering. This bill would give them an avenue.

Will reply and comment on these posts shortly.